Thursday, June 15, 2006

Naturally, An Advertisement

EoR has been browsing an advertising brochure for Roseneath Organics Pty Ltd (<-- Ooh! Look! A sign of Big Altie associations!) which explains the philosophy and benefits of herbal medicines.
In 'days gone by' most medicines and healing agents were extracted naturally from plants and other materials directly.

EoR wonders how you extract medicines "naturally" from plants. If it was natural, they'd be oozing out on their own. But it's important to get that "natural" keyword in as early and as often as possible. Never mind if it makes any sense, we want a feeling of cosiness and comfort.
Now most pharmaceuticals can, and are, being artifically mass synthesized in industrial laboratories. These new artifically contrived copies of natural compounds are very often not chemically, nor structurally, the same as the original plant compounds.

Now we can start with the fear. "Artifical". "Mass synthesized". "Contrived copies". And what's the difference between "chemically" and "structurally" the same?
The difference between natural plant derived and artificial compounds comes about because often the cost of reproducing an exact copy of the natural substance is prohibitive or simply because skilled pharmaceutical chemists don't know how to artifically synthesize natures' gifts!

Not so "skilled" after all, it seems.
In some cases the imperfect artifical copies are quite hazardous and toxic when used alone as single dose pharmaceuticals.

More scare mongering. Indeed, almost all pharmaceuticals are dangerous in certain situations, in combinatino with certain other medications, or in excessive doses. But since they use the active compound extracted from the plant, how does this make the same compound in the plant magically safe? St John's Wort, anyone? Of course, with the plant, you're also getting all those extra, unspecified compounds along with the active compound, in fairly random dosage levels. Much safer indeed.
Many of these synthetic pharmaceuticals also have shocking side effects and debilitating long term health consequences.

The same comments apply again. Though EoR is thankful the brochure shows enough restraint not to mention thalidomide. Most alternatistas would have done so by now. Maybe EoR needs to have a lie down and ingest some nice safe herbal relaxants like Deadly Nightshade. That should calm him down.
It is horrific to think that approximately 50% of current human pharmaceuticals are based on chemically manipulated, patentable synthetics or upon artificially created and imperfect copies of natural plant substances!

Are the other 50% fine to use then? And if pharmaceuticals were really trying to "copy" plants, they'd be made from the plants, just like the natural (=safe, obviously) herbal mixes being pushed here.
Unfortunately the consumer is too often the experimental laboratory rat or powerful political and social manipulations, collective and corporate greed, immoral marketing practices and the hazy dreams of multinational controlled research scientists.

Big Pharma wants to kill you! Government wants to mind control you! Resist now! Make a conscious choice! Become a laboratory rat for untested herbal supplements. Which, of course, is a political and social manipulation in itself, promoting and supporting collective and corporate greed (just in a different direction).

EoR is off to take his Dream State Insomnia Spray ("Enough pillow aromatherapay for 125 sleeps!").

15 comments:

  1. Could someone please explain where Big Pharma ends and Big Altie starts? Blackmores is one of Australia's largest drug companies. It sells lots of little pills. These are not pressed herbs or fruit-filled capsules. They are artificially modified extracts, far removed from nature's garden, and they look just like the other little pills from Pfizer, Merck or such.

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  2. Thankyou for promoting my business and drawing attention to the reality of the global medicinal products industry.

    We have many happy clients at Roseneath Organics who find that the efficacy of the products we can offer them far surpasses anything on offer from the synthetic pharmaceutical industry.

    Perhaps you should go and learn something by looking at clinical trials results and medical journals. There are many clinical trials on herbs and plant substances. You just need to do some research before you voice your cynicism. Maybe then could you profess to be some kind of intellectual skeptic.

    Cheers
    Adam Voysey
    Managing Director
    Roseneath Organics

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  3. Thank you for your kind comments. If you had read the post carefully, perhaps you might have picked up that it's not actually an advertisement for your company. But EoR presumes you missed that little subtlety.

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  4. Hi,
    ummm where did i use the word advert or the word advertising ??? hmmmm it would seem that like most skeptics you interpret information as you would like to ... rather than looking at the reality of data that is clear in front of your face.
    As an electronics engineer with 15 years industry experience i can assure you that i am in quite a good position to know the intent and meaning of what i say and what i write.
    As a follow on to my previous comment.... all of my products are based on scientifically peer reviewed medical literature. So if you have a problem with herbs then perhaps you should start debunking the scientific process and telling research academics that they are telling you lies.
    Maybe you could go and start taking Viox so that you can have heart failure like 140,000 odd americans have. geeee wouldn't that sarcastic comment i just made be an indication that both herbs and pharmaceuticals are both dangerous if used innapropriately ?? How bout you start sticking it up the pharmaceutical companies rather than attacking businesses like mine ? I do not run my business on profit and shareholder return like the drug companies and i dont have to charge stupid prices for my products, as do the synthetic producers of medicines, in order to justify my expenses on R&D. This is so because a large body of information on natural plant medicines has been established over the past 2 or 3 millenia by doctors, surgeons, academics, alchemists and chemists. Maybe you could spend your time being less cynical and exuberating a little bit more positivity.

    Yours sincerely
    Adam Voysey
    Managing Director
    Roseneath Organics

    PS i find it rather amusing that you have a adopted a name like second site in order to promote your cause.
    By crikey you are a linguistic genius !

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  5. Oh dear... Where did EoR say you you used the word "advert" or the word "advertising". Don't be so obtuse. EoR said "it's not actually an advertisement". Note the lack of quotation marks in the original comment. A "promoting" of a business is similar to "advertising" a business. Don't create false issues. Though, given your apparent literalness, EoR wishes to clarify that it's The Second Sight, and not The Second Site. But you obviously weren't paying attention.

    Ah, yes, Viox (actually, Vioxx, but attention to detail is clearly not your strong point). Did you only mention that because EoR had already mentioned thalidomide in the post?

    Please provide the "scientifically peer reviewed medical literature" (note - that's in quotes which means it actually is your own words) for Dream State Insomnia Spray. EoR would love to see that.

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  6. sure ... maybe i can help you look up stuff on the internet .... The research on the use of essential oils in the treatment of insomnia and sleep awakening problems has been conducted by Independent members of the European Sleep Research Society, Kao corporation from Japan and the Japanes Institute for Mental Health. The results were presented at the 16’th Congress of the European Sleep Research Society (Reykjavik June 3-7 2002).
    Go and find the abstract yourself you wanker. Then go and read about real clinical trials on herbal and phyto extracts. There is much to learn and you obviously have such a closed mind that you are missing out on the gifts that nature has to offer.
    If you continue to trash my business or my products then I shall instigate legal proceedings for defamation. We will see how you like that.
    Ciao
    Adam Voysey

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  7. How is it a business when they're "gifts" and you don't run on "profit and shareholder return"?

    Thanks for the hints about the sleep research. EoR will try and track them down when he gets time (there's a queue, you understand).

    Thanks also for the threat of legal action. So much for discussion or fair criticism. And EoR thought it was only Big Pharma that relied on offensive tactics like that.

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  8. Search results at European Sleep Research Society" for "essentials oils": zero.

    Search results at European Sleep Research Society" for "wesentliche Öle": zero.

    "Kao Corporation is the East's equivalent to Procter & Gamble, a giant conglomerate marketing a huge variety of products ranging from washing powder to sanitary napkins, and from beauty products to cooking oil. Kao is one of Asia's leading manufacturers of household and personal care products, but has found it harder to break into Western markets, despite the success of its Biore skin cleanser range, and acquisitions such as Jergens, Ban and John Frieda. Committed to a global approach to business, Kao has operations in 27 countries in Asia, North America, Europe, and other parts of the world." Hmmm... Sounds like those big nasty pharmaceutical companies. EoR probably shouldn't believe anything they say.

    "Japanes[e] Institute for Mental Health": no records. Did you mean, instead, the National Institue of Mental Health? Unfortunately, EoR doesn't read Japanese so he can't look up your study on that site.

    If only you could give EoR the actual URL, or post the research that you have, rather than avoiding the subject. Did you mean the statistically insignificant trials mentioned here?

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  9. Just to enter the bun fight...

    I regularly check medical journals and herbs are repeatedly described as "may help" in such and such condition, but due to insufficient studies, can't confirm or deny claims. The problem is partly the vast number of herbal substances available and partly the cost of investigation. Also the TGA is more interested in safety issues than efficacy or truth in advertising of herbal medicines. Personally, the cost excuse doesn't impress me too much - considering the size of companies like Blackmores.

    Perhaps you are genuinely a cottage industry and can't afford big, correctly organized trials. In any case you say you're an electrical engineer and so probably didn't learn about statistical methods, pharmacology and physiology at university. You may have had a few happy customers, but how are you going to discover if the herbs worked, or they were getting better anyway, or if the illness was a fluctuating one, or if they took your herbs and got worse and went back to their doctor? Also you need time to work out if anything is actually harmful and going to cause liver failure down the track. I wouldn't depend on ancient wisdom as there was plenty of ancient stupidity too (malaria caused by bad air, epilepsy by demons etc).

    As far as synthetics being bad, what about the redundant elements in fresh herbs? Harmful or simply unpalatable components may need removing. It may be impractical to extract enough of tiny quantities of an active ingredient to service the population. It may be impossible to calculate dosage with variation from plant to plant. I can't imagine safe use of digitalis by handing out fresh foxglove flowers, or geriatrics gnawing on willow bark.

    There are probably thousands of useful medicines yet to discover from plants, but well-run trials are needed to sort the oats from the chaff.

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  10. I am sick of this situation. Please provide me with a contact mail address so I can serve you with a legal letter from my lawyers.
    Adam Voysey
    Roseneath Organics

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  11. Some holiday reading for you:

    More on negative black cohosh results

    Sharon Begley's botanical gift

    Botanical/herbal remedies fail in clinical efficacy trial for menopausal symptoms

    NB: While EoR is providing links for your perusal, he notes you still haven't provided the few he's requested from you.

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  12. Eor .. I am sick of this being visible on the web.
    I request that you remove this from your site. I also request that you provide your contact details so that I may serve you with a defamation writ.
    Will you do this or are you too gutless and feel like a BIG MAN hiding behind the anonymity of the internet?
    I suspect you are just a tired old skeptic who is too negative to accept what people with knowledge try to educate you with.
    I will be contacting your web host to demand that your blog details discussing me and my business activities be completely removed from your site.

    Sincerely ...
    Adam Voysey
    1 West Street
    Mylor
    South Australia 5153

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  13. Wow, Adam Voysey of Mylor SA, I never would have noticed this thread after all these years if you hadn't directed my attention to it with your latest comment.

    ReplyDelete
  14. You don't need an address. You can get a court order and contact Blogger directly: How can I report abuse?.

    Here are some examples of content we will not remove unless provided with a court order:
    -Personal attacks or alleged defamation
    -Parody or satire of individuals
    -Distasteful imagery or language
    -Political or social commentary

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  15. Blogspot has had some problems with comments recently. This comment seems to have disappeared and is reposted (slightly out of order) to make sense of this thread.

    Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Naturally, An Advertisement":

    Eor .. I am sick of this being visible on the web.
    I request that you remove this from your site. I also request that you provide your contact details so that I may serve you with a defamation writ.
    Will you do this or are you too gutless and feel like a BIG MAN hiding behind the anonymity of the internet?
    I suspect you are just a tired old skeptic who is too negative to accept what people with knowledge try to educate you with.
    I will be contacting your web host to demand that your blog details discussing me and my business activities be completely removed from your site.

    Sincerely ...
    Adam Voysey
    1 West Street
    Mylor
    South Australia 5153



    Posted by Anonymous to The Second Sight at Saturday, July 03, 2010 11:14:00 PM

    ReplyDelete

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